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General: Charge Controller Suitable for Jacobs Wind Turbine?
http://solar-guppy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=207		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  DJ [ Tue May 25, 2004 8:44 am GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject:  General: Charge Controller Suitable for Jacobs Wind Turbine?
Howdy!

I installed an "Old Jake" wind turbine this weekend at my place, a model 60 long-case that I had refurbished a while ago. It throws 70 amps at 40v, DC, for a nominal 2400 watts (and yes, I know, but that's what the plate says ;-).

Now, Jakes originally come with a old "charge controller type breaker box thing" to keep the battery bank from spinning *them* but the one that came with this Jake, well, it's seen better days.
I am going to call Michigan Wind and Sun later today to get a quote for a new one, but don't expect them to be cheap.

I did get a pair of Enermaxers with it (the 12-24-32-36v ones), for voltage control, but these are voltage controllers and aren't used in series with the generator, so have no "blocking" features.

So, basically, what I need is a whopping big blocking diode to keep the juice coming into my house, not leaving.

Suggestions?

DJ
Author:  Solar Guppy [ Tue May 25, 2004 8:54 am GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
Xantrex C40/C60 has back to back FETS , which means it has the blocking effect you want , there cheap to 160 bucks should work OK

The Outback MX60 DOES NOT have blocking diodes and relies on Software to disconnect the array via a relay. It may or maynot work since the motor is NOT a PV panel type load. It is feature rich and would be very flexible , good for your type of setup , its also 600 bucks list
Author:  DJ [ Tue May 25, 2004 9:38 am GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
I see on the Xantrex page that the C-60s are rated for a peak of 85, and will self-reset if they see it; that should be ok, I think for my peak of 70.

I also see that they will load dump, as the Enermaxers will... but the Enermaxers don't block like the C-60 will... hmm.
Oh, and C-60s, up here, are 380$ retail. I do, however, have access to dealer prices though my company ;-).

I'm thinking that maybe selling the Enermaxers to pay for the C-60 might be the way to go... Oh, and if anyone needs it, I have the Enermaxer's manual as a PDF.

Too bad about the Outback system this time, but I'm also going to be throwing on a few photovoltaics, probably a couple hundred watts now, eventually, maybe a full Kw (my house/business is off grid totally).

Thanks Gup!

DJ
Author:  Solar Guppy [ Tue May 25, 2004 10:03 am GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
An FYI

the Xantrex C40/C60 is not a true pwm contoller , it lacks the inductor part for that. It is really an On/OFF controller.

The OutBack is a True PWM power supply , the difference is the Outback can step down a high voltage and charge a low voltage battry bank with good regulation. The Xantrex C60 , many times a second applys the input to the output , if the source is a PV array , that's fines since the array will just lower the voltage to match the source in most situations

Since your using a wind generator , I'm not sure if the C60 would be a good choice ... I have no direct experiance with wind systems ... hopefully others will add their 2 cents
Author:  DJ [ Tue May 25, 2004 10:18 am GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
Ok, just talked to John at LMWS, the people that took over the sales of Jacobs stuff from Mick Sagrillo. The "authority", as it were.

For the illumination of all, I will share what I learned ;-).

They suggest I run the delivery line into a rectifier, and then a load diversion regulator. I said "So, like a C-60?" and they said "Yep, that would be fine".

They did say, however, to make very sure I could dump every last watt that comes in if I need to, as you cannot "turn off" a Jacobs.

DJ
Author:  DJ [ Tue May 25, 2004 10:40 am GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
Ah, man, just checked out the specs on the Outback unit, though...

Too sweet.

Gonna have to call my supplier, and get a quote on that one...

Like all people that go off grid, I have to watch the money flow. Currently, I am running 12v, and figured that I'd have to reconfigure my batteries and get a new inverter to go up to 24v to use the turbine, or else get a transformer to bring it down to 12v and keep it where it is. Eventually, of course, I want to have a full 24v system, but I haven't won a lottery lately, so I have to keep saving! It looks alot like the smart money might be on this Outback unit...

I'm starting to really like those outback guys ;-).

I'll have to wander over to their part of this board and ask them their opinion.

DJ
Author:  Solar Guppy [ Tue May 25, 2004 1:01 pm GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
Keep in mind , if you lower the voltage , your amps will go up accordingly to keep th same power ...

The MX60 and the C60 are both 60 amp charge contollers , so if for example you want 12 volts from your wind genny , that will be 4x the amps at 12 volts using the MX60 ....
Author:  DJ [ Tue May 25, 2004 1:18 pm GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
Which actually brings up a very interesting question:

What amperage does the MX60 divert? Would I need to have the ability to burn off 70 amps at 40v, or (realistically to include the 250 feet of line drop) 200 amps at 12v?

I guess it would be safe to hook up to something that could burn 200 amps... probably a water heater, then.
I am getting a quote from Michigan Wind for the load diversion gear they suggest.

DJ
Author:  Solar Guppy [ Tue May 25, 2004 1:45 pm GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
NO !! , the MX60 is rated at 60 amps ... this is the maximum current at the output ! , the point I was making is if you have 60 amps at 40 volts and then run it thru the MX60 to have 12 volts , your still only going to have 60 amps !

I'm not sure exactly what the diversion is rated , I would be surpised if it was higher that the output amps ...
Author:  DJ [ Tue May 25, 2004 1:55 pm GMT EthGMT ]
Post subject: 
Ok, yeah, too few coffee today ;-).

Ok, we got 70 amps (absolute best case) coming in; at 40 volts. 2800 watts of power, by my count.

You're saying that if the controller down-shifts it to 12 volts, it's still a maximum of 70 amps. So right there, I'm down to 840 watts of power to charge my batteries. So that ~2000 watts gets eaten by the transformer?

Do you see where my confusion comes from? I figured all else being equal, if the transformer took 40v and turned it into 12v, then it would HAVE to jack the amperage up to ~200, or otherwise make it disappear... or have I been missing something in elementary DC theory? ;-).

DJ
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