Just got this letter from my local Gas & Electric company, just wanted to see if this was a good deal or pretty much a scam on their part. Would like to get your thoughts about this, maybe some of you guys may already be on this plan with this new type of meter.

The letter from the Electric Company:

On May 1st, 2008, They introduced an optional time-of-use rate (Schedule DR-SES) that's available for residental customers with solar electric generation systems. DR-SES differs from the standard, tiered residental rate that most solar energy homes are on. The standard rate charges a fixed price per kilowatt-hour (kWh) that increases as electricity use builds during a monthly billing period. So when excess electricity produced by your solar system is credited to you, its for the same fixed price in the tier that it was produced.

With a time-of-use rate like DR-SES, the price of electricity varies according to on-peak, semi-peak and off-peak use time periods (see the table below). Depending on your energy use throughtout the day and the amount of electricity produced by your system, you may be able to reduce your annual energy cost.

How it works

During on-peak hours, especially during the summer months when your solar system is likely producing electricity at its maximum output, the price of energy is much higher then it is at other times. This means that every excess kilowatt-hour your system generates is creditied to your account at the higher rate during the on-peak period. By reducing your energy consumption during the on-peak period, your solar system sends the energy you produced to the Electric Company's system and credits you. The higher credits you received can help offset the cost of electricity during times when your solar system is not meeting your full energy needs and you're using electricity from the Electric company.

Keep in mind, if you use more on-peak electricity than your solar system produces, you'll be charged the higher rate for the energy you use. Its possible your bill could end up being higher then it would have been under the standard residental rate.

The time periods, seasons and costs below can help you do your analysis to determine if this rate is right for you.

Time Periods

Summer on-peak 11am - 6pm Mon - Fri (except holidays)
Summer semi-peak 6am - 11am and 6pm - 10pm Mon - Fri (except holidays)
Summer off-peak 10pm - 6am, weekdays and all hours on weekends and holidays
Winter semi-peak 6am - 6pm Mon - Fri (except holidays)
Winter off-peak 6pm - 6am Mon - Fri and all hours on weekends and holidays

Seasons

Summer May 1 - Oct 31
Winter Nov 1 - April 30

Kilowatt-hour costs

Time-of-use Meter Charge $3.81 per month
Summer on-peak $0.26404 per kWh
Summer semi-peak $0.16788 per kWh
Summer off-peak $0.14927 per kWh
Winter semi-peak $0.16115 per kWh
Winter off-peak $0.15126 per kWh

IF I go with this new rate system they will come out and change out my old meter with their new meter that measures the amount of electricity you use and the amount of electricity your solar system sends to the Electric Company.

What do you guys think about this??? Also I want to let you guys know that my system currently ZERO's OUT the annual electric bill.

I will also consult my Solar company tomorrow to see what type of input they have with this type of rate plan and new meter.



Fred

You did not say what your residential flat rate charges are (look like you have baseline+tiered pricing).

I looked at SDGE's website and I could not figure out the charges--looks like they only show the utility side of the charges and leave out the actual cost of power.

Anyway, I don't like the TOU plan they have given you. The only time you can save money is by shifting power to 10pm-6am (summer)--that is pretty late at night, and unless you have, or are planing on purchasing an electric vehicle take power at that time--pretty much you are stuck with buying more expensive power during the day (winter is not near the issue).

But, because I don't know your flat rate/tiered pricing--I don't know if the TOU plan is horrendously more expensive or may end up not being much different in pricing than your current flat/tiered plan.

Up north here in PG&E land--our summer TOU rates start out at $0.09 off-peak to $0.30 peak per kWhr. And on-peak is noon-6pm Mon-Fri... So I can usually do stuff before noon or after 6pm pretty easy (I even have a freezer set with a digital timer that turns it off between noon-6pm Mon-Fri.

And that leaves all weekend to be wild and crazy with the power.

But because we also have tiered rates for TOU, they go up to $0.53 per kWhr peak-summer and $0.32 off peak-summer... Pretty scary rates and you don't want to get caught paying those if you can help it.

Our residential flat rates are $0.12 to $0.36 per kWhr [not per day day--fixed] (300kWhr to ~900kWhr+ per month).

With my system, currently generating more power than I use over the year--but with my E-7 two time period TOU plan gives me about 1/2 my solar power Mon-Fri at $0.30/kWhr and I buy off peak at $0.09 per kWhr (summer rates)--not a bad deal. The winter rate spread is much less.

But--as always, the good deals are to be taken away--currently, I am grandfathered under this rate plan but the new solar TOU plan has similar time/usage patterns as yours--plus it also has "scary" tiered pricing too.

If I had to give up my simple TOU plan and was forced to use the new multi-2-3 time a day plan--I would have great difficulty explaining and managing my wife and kids' power usage--explaining on what day/holiday/weekend/season when they can turn something or not... And I would find it difficult to push optional power use deep into the night (unless I went with batteries and inverters).

I think even the complex TOU plan would save me some money--but it is not worth the hassle for me. Also, for many folks that wanted to install smaller solar arrays that did not cover close to 100% of their use--they saw their bills go up--even after solar was installed.

You can try modeling it in Excel (we are deep into the summer period) by checking roughly how much power you generate before 11am and between 11am and 6pm--but you also have to know your home loads and times--pretty tricky stuff to estimate with any accuracy.

I would guess that you have to sign up for this rate plan for 1 year, and in my case, I would loose the chance to go back to residential flat rate or my "preferred" two period TOU plan.

If they would let you "trial" the meter for one month--it would be interesting--put they probably won't do that for you.

Also, check your metering and minimum per day charges... I notice that your plans have some pretty good sized metering charges for certain plans (that you may not have for residential--woops, never mind, that $13 charge was for electric vehicle charging/metering).

I am surprised by how high your "low" period TOU rates are--It would seem to indicate that your baseline residential power is around $0.16 per kWhr or so...

For me, my off-peak winter charges average out to be less than flat rate residential...

If your bills are low/zero anyway, there is no reason to change plans unless you have some new loads you would like to add on (A/C, etc.). You do get an additional TOU meter charge of $3.81 per month--additional costs that you have no reason (at this point) to pay.

I would be interested in hearing what your local solar guy says.

-Bill

They left out the original killer - peak rate till 9pm That really screwed folks up north when they got hit with that.

So it's time to look at your system logs, and see how much power you produce after 3pm winter days. That is where they are going to kill you. Winter, 3pm - 6pm, when you are not generating, and they are selling to you. You will have to avoid heavy loads at those times, maybe put a timer on the fridge to shut it down till after 6pm.

Do you get a monthly bill with this plan, or a yearly bill ?
If you have surplus, do they write you a check, or just say Thanks !

The Sand Diego plan is sort of OK for winter--6am-6pm. Kind of tough to get anything done (wash, cooking, etc.) before 6am--but at least you can have a reasonable life with power after 6pm.

Did you notice that the summer partial peak is until 10pm?...

But, the reason I am not too concerned about this SD TOU plan is that there are (currently) no baseline/usage tiers. And the difference between semi-peak and off-peak is only $0.02 per kWhr... Even the peak rates in summer are less punishing than up north...

If this was PG&E (northern California); Peak is 3x off peak, and summer peak goes from $0.30 to $0.53 per kWhr (depending on usage tier).

So--depending on the flat rate residential power pricing for San Diego--this TOU plan will impact their bill less than PG&E's--and therefore there is less reason to switch between flat rate/tiered pricing vs TOU.

-Bill

Thank you very much Bill for your awesome input, when I got this system installed, Borrego Solar did an annual energy audit by logging on to SDG&E and seeing what my monthly useages were, so they were able to calculate the system size I needed to Zero out my annual payment. I remember that the Sales rep also told me they left me with enough room if I was to install a spa in the backyard or equipment to run a pool in the future.

So this whole past year starting with April of 07. I ran the house without conserving any energy, everything ran as normal and I kept the house cool at 72 - 75 degrees throughout the year. I ran the basic appliances like the Microwave, Fridge, Lights around the house, 2 TV's, 2 Laptops and 1 Desktop computer, WaterSoftener at night, the Yamaha home stereo system with the 55"Big screen, Electric stove top, Electric range ovens and the 2 LG Tromm Front loader washer and dryer. Just your basic home items.

Example of 3/27 - 4/25 bill was total excess kWh of 651 and credit of $100.31 Looks like that comes out to 0.15 per kWh with this standard rate. I think I will just keep this the way it is right now and I will also let you know what Borrego Solar says about that other TOU metering system.

Thank you very much once again.



Fred

Write me a check??? LOL Heck no, With this standard plan that I'm currently on, my excess generation goes into a bank so that I can use if needed during those cloudy days. I do get a monthly bill for the 5.21 per month for the night usage with the stats of kWh overages. I generated 651 kWh extra so that goes into the bank and the credit comes out to $100.31 for that amount of kWh on this past month. I don't have to pay this bill until the end of the year or April which is the end of the cycle which comes out to 62.00 or so.


Fred