Technically , its a buck typology , which uses an inductor , not a transformer

And yes it is designed to boost the current if the voltage is lower at the output than the input.

The part you are missing is if you feed a 12 volt battery bank at 60 amps (well lets call it 14 volts) its 840 watts ... the charge controller is limited to current.

The charge controller will limit the current output to 60 amps , so it will only draw ~15 amps at 48 volts ... you will have to have diversion for the rest. you should get some professional help on this , the wind genny you have is a very powerful system ..

Ah! Ok, NOW I see what you're saying.

If I finally understand, I'll pretty much have diversion flow at anything past, say, 21 amps production of the wind genny, something around 30%, so, at 70 amps full production from the genny, *and* empty batteries, I'd have fifty amps of diversion to get rid of *and* be charging my batteries with an additional 60 amps at 12v.

If and when I step up my system to 24V, I will still be able to push 60 amps, but at a higher voltage, and thus be able to make use of about 60% of my genny's full production.

My problem is that I thought it was a simple "step down" transformer system and the math just wasn't working for me. Now I understand that diversion-mode on this system is both resulting from input, ie, giving it more energy than it can possibly use, and output, with feedback calculations from the batteries.

I've definitely gotta make some use of that much diversion flow!

Interesting.

And yes, Gup, despite my inexperience, my company keeps a master electrician in-house for just this kind of thing .
Lessee, on my "to do" list:
Contact the windmill manufacturer, and find out what they wanted me to use. CHECK!
Contact charge controller and find out what they think of my application. Ok, posted, waiting.
And before wiring it up, bring in my master electrician, to check it all over.
No problem .

And yessum, those old Jakes do indeed throw some juice, don't they? .

DJ

Hi DJ,

The MX60 is probably not a good choice for high power wind. When it is regulating it's output when the batteries are near full charge, it will begin to unload the Jake which I understand is a bad thing. Wind is usually controlled with a diversion or shunt regulator. The regulator is in parallel with the battery. The wind genny puts out as much as it can and the diversion controller shunts the excess current to some kind of dump load in order to keep the battery voltage from exceeding the setpoint.

You can use a diversion controller with both wind and PV but a seperate MPPT controler like the MX60 will maximize the output of the PV.

By the way, I would suspect that Outback could make you a 32V or a 36V inverter which would more closly match your Jake's output. I am sure Michigan Wind and Sun could tell you the optimum battery voltage for you genny.

From what I've seen, the MX60 would have diverted the excess, and yes, unloading the Jake would be very bad . Old iron doesn't like being back-fed .

Yeah, the problem is that I need a "blocking diode" in series with the genny and the batteries, and then hook some load diverters to the battery bank; I have two Enermaxers that came with the genny for that purpose.

The previous owner suffered about a eight volt line loss from the genny to the house, getting about 32 volts (a hundred feet down the tower, another hundred and fifty to the batteries).

And like so many here, I see, I also run NiCads. I think they might be AlCad. Again, like many, I got them second hand. They, configured to a 24v bank, would take the 30-32 volts quite nicely, again, using the Enermaxer diverters.

Thanks!

DJ

DJ,

The Jacobs are wonderful machines, congradulations on putting one up! They came from a era of craftmanship, and were built to be rebuilt.

I will be putting up a short case Jake this summer. 48V @ 40-45 max out.

I plan on using 2 TC40's for load control. Not sure what I'll use for a dump load, possibly 2 DC hot water heating elements from KansasWindPower.com. I hate the thought of just dumping that extra power and not using it somehow.

My system will also include PV. Will be using the MX60 as a charge controller. Will simply set the MX60 Bulk/Float settings slightly higher then the TC40's.

I've talked to Steve Bell of Sunwize who has a Long case, 48V. He is using the TC40's with good results dumping into a heating element. There was an article in Homepower a while back about his system. I believe he's governed his generator to max out at 60'ish amps. I guess the thought being @ 48V's the generator is spinning a little faster than normal, so why run it hard.

I would suggest adding a large Schotky diode, Kansaswindpower offers those as well, if Lake Michigan doesn't have them. What would happen if the TC's took a dump? you would want a back-up.

I'm also going to have a large/cheap AC space heater hooked up to a relay, triggered by the inverter as a backup dump load. Cheap insurance. Worse case, I never use the AC heater. My neighbor has a short case, his best 24hr output has been right a 1000 AHr's. That would do some serious damage to the batteries if not diverted. Oh ya, I live in a class 6 wind area.

I've talked to John a few times at Lake Michigan, he's a great guy.

Maybe look at the TC 40's, it would give you the ability to go 48V in the future.

Which governor are you using?


Kevin

Hello my new best friend .

They are, indeed! It started life out on a Sasketechewan farm in the sixties, I understand. Then got transplanted here for a few years with an aquaintance of mine, and now I have it. I got the bearings changed, got it re-wound, dipped, baked, megged, new brushes, a new paint job, new rings, and we're off to the races again.



Mine is a Long case model 60, rated at 40v DC, 70 amps max, 2400 watts, according to the plate (and yes, I know the math doesn't work out .

Now, these TC-40s, who makes those? Are those Trace C-40s?

Talking to Michigan, for mine, since it's only 70 amps max, and with about two hundred and fifty feet of line from turbine to batteries to have some line loss, we figured one C60 would do it.
Including a rectifier, which they're quoting me on, and some load diversion, also, they're getting me a quote on.

It came with the old Jacobs load sensor gear, but it looked pretty sad, and probably would be cheaper, I figured, to start fresh.
It did come with two Enermaxers for load diversion; they're even the good ones that do 12-24-32-36V.
If I do have to go with a C60, I may sell them to pay for it... one of them, anyway.

I was wondering if I should throw a blocking diode in there anyway... Schotky, eh? Yeah, having my Jake turn into a Cessna would be a bad thing .

A thousand amp hours in a day?!?! Man, that would be sweet . Not likely here, except in mid-winter. Here, wind is hit and miss. I think I'll be ok with it, but this part of Canada isn't exactly a wind tunnel. That's actually why I went with a Jake when the chance came along; they have a nice low cut-in speed; better even than the H80s.

Oh, and mine's flyball governed. As you said, Deux ex machina .

Oh, and Kev! Do you have the manual for your new toy? If you don't, I have one, and I've even scanned it to an adobe document if you want it!

DJ

DJ,

sounds like you have a sweet generator, re-wound......

Ya', the tags on the generator don't make sense.

A friend, Peter, in Oklahoma who has long cases flying with similiar wire runs as you, peaks at about 60 amps @ the 24V DC bus @ about 25mph. I believe he's using a dbl up run of 2/0. What gauge wire did you use?


My wife and are building a home in a off-grid area in the Colorado Rockies. It's about a 75 sq mile area with about 50 homes up there. I've met many of the off-grid veterans, some 20yrs or more off-grid. One point they all drive home, is have a back-up for everything. Thats my reason for using 2 Trace TC40's, and a Schotky diode. In the scheme of things, they're cheap. The surpluscenter.com will usually have big schotky diodes as well.

I'll take you up the manual file. I have two different manuals myself, but I know of another guy here in Colorado who just picked up a Jake in need of a manual. Would be much easier to e-mail him one, he's a ways away.

I have a couple of the sad looking control boxes as well. The old meters on them are cool, I plan on using them somewhere.

What kind of tower do you have?

Kevin

Kevin

Well, re-wound, possibly, but re-wound by Jacobs themselves... it's a Jacobs tag! Go figure .

Wire size? I'm using what came with it, what the other guy used sucessfully for a while; I think it's 2 I have going up the tower, but then it goes with a much heavier line (have to measure, but I think it's near 0000) from the tower to the house.
The guy who had it before me, he was EASILY two hundred and fifty feet from the tower, and in the end, got about 34 volts.

We're in an off grid home in south west Quebec, on the "old" mountains, the Laurentian Shield . We just moved in this past winter (yes, we moved in in the middle of a Canadian Winter, and yes, we're nuts .
We own 120 acres, two lakes, lots of deer, bears, wolves. The wolves get a bit annoying occasionally, gloating when they get a kill two hundred yards from the house... at two o'clock in the morning . But they're fun to chat with in the late evenings sometimes when they're bored.

Well, all righty sir! Pdf'd, the manual is about three meg, so just send me an email off-list, and we'll arrange a time for me to put it up on my web page, and let you download it from there!

The tower I'm using is a ninety five footer, 18" square, lattice construction. Guy wires to four directions, two heights. EACH guy wire is tied to a one-ton concrete block, and the tower base is bolted down to a five ton concrete pad. I'd rather it not go anywhere .

Yep, one thing I understand is redundancy .

So, to make sure I understand the procedure, the lines come down from the Jake. They go into a rectifier? You didn't mention one, but Michigan did.
Then into the blocking diode, rated for probaby 100 amps, then into either your two C40s, or one C60, then the output of the C60 goes to the batteries, and the diversion load goes to something that can really take a serious diversion load, like hot water heating?

Sound about right?

If it was possible, I'd really like to exchange a couple of emails with your buddy that has one running right now!

Thanks Kevin,

DJ

Ok, called John over at Michigan to get clairification on the procedure:
The lines come down from the Jake. Then it goes into a "rectifier", ALSO called a "blocking diode", rated for 100 amps.
After that, yep, then into either your two C40s, or one C60, then the output of the C60 goes to the batteries, and the diversion load goes to something that can really take a serious diversion load, and they usually suggest hot water heating coils.

Sadly, talking to the good folks at Outback, it seems i'm fated to buy a Xantrex product, vis a vis, the C60.

Sounds like a plan.

I'd still like to talk to your buddies, though, Kev, if I could, and shoot me a line and I'll put the Jake manual on my homepage for download.

DJ

120 acres with two lakes, sounds like heaven.

You are on the right track. Generator, blocking diode, DC bus, TC40's, dump load. Don't forget a disconnect, 100 amp should do.


How you doing with climbing the tower?, 95 ft is up there.

Have a rock climbing friend who is going to teach me how to rappel, that'll be a blast rappeling down the tower.

Kevin