I'm looking for some panels for a small system. I've been trying to buy them on eBay, but as I've noticed for other categories of items - they often bid up the the point they are not really competitive with new product IMHO, so I'm starting to look at dealers. (Of course it was ebay and not google that led me here, so it's all good )

I've read many of the posts here, and it seems that most panels from most manufacturers are solid products (I have read about the troubles with some Kyocera panels) but as I search for the golden dollar/watt ratio I wonder... are their manufacturers or specific panels I should avoid??????

If you think the eBay prices are to high, your not going to like buying new panels then. Prices are closing in on 5 dollars watt. For kicks, call up a dealer and see what the lead times are. I've heard 2-6 months for small orders, longer for larger orders

As for brand, all silicon panels are basically the same. What ever you do DON'T BUY ASI panels (Uni-solar and older BP panels sold on eBay) as they have really issues long term

Kyocera from the summer of 2001 has huge amounts of failures, I personally know of 6 arrays that Kyocera is replacing/replaced all the panels.

If you want to get panels buy them now, they are not going to be cheaper, at least in US dollars terms for a very long time, if ever.

I fear we are at the dawn of some very ugly inflation, history has not been kind to countrys that carry large debts and ours is pushing 400 billion and growing this year alone and the total debt is almost 8 trillion , thats 27K for every living person in the USA

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

I already have There are some dealers with product in stock, and you are correct, $5 a watt is about the going price, although there are a few just under that. The price on ebay is between 3.5 and $4 a watt. For that difference in price, I'd just as soon buy new panels, and not have to worry about whether there will be any problems.


Thanks for the info. I will avoid them.



On this I agree completely, and that is one reason I'm interested in solar power for my getaway home. Another is that the struggle to keep cheap energy flowing is soon to become more and more futile. The number of forces arrayed against things staying as they are in America are legion. I'm doing a lot more to prepare than just a solar electric system, might I suggest bullion and stores of food

Oh and BTW, that $400 billion deficit figure you quoted is pure gov't fuzzy math. All kinds of costly expenditures are simply not counted towards the deficit, but we pay them just the same

Be very careful, just because they Say the have stuff in stock doesn't mean they do. I would only use a well known vendor or make sure you can do cash and carry. There have been countless stories of how they charge your credit card and you wait for months waiting for product.



If a panel is working, the cells themselfs will last 50-100 years(SI panels). The only failure modes I have seen on panels is the interconnections and that can be repaired so IMHO, panels even with failure can be made to last close to forever. worst case is you get out the knife and soldering iron and fix a bum connection.

Bottomline, a year for now you'll be lookin at 6-8 bucks a watt IMHO and that if you can get them. There are some unreal big style systems now being started that will just make a tight supply into no stock period.

... your insights. It is tough to make decisions with so many factors to consider ...

Not really, you have only one choice and that is do you buy panels, YES or NO


set a budget and them buy whatever that budget can afford.

I had missed this in your eailer post. I have transfered all my IRA holdings into GLD. While holding gold won't really give you more buying power in the future it does protect you against currency devaluation. I just can't see any other way out of this madness with the US debt other than Mexico of the 80's or Germany of the 20's currency devaluation ... If someone else has a better outlook or plan, I'm all ears

To answer your guestion:
"are their manufacturers or specific panels I should avoid??????"

YES

Look out for the high volatage panels like sanyo hit190ba3's and all panels like them.. IF you have a 48 volt system. If you have 12 / 24 volts you are ok.

The VOC on the above panel is 67.5 so if you string them in sets of two the VOC is now 135 volts that is close to 140 volts max for OLD MX-60 charge controllers and 150 volts for NEW MX-60 charge controllers.

SO now the problem is in COLD weather 0 to -30 the VOC can go to 162 to 185 volts VOC, the MX-60 will shut off and stay in protection mode untill the VOC drops when the panels heat up but by then you have lost 1 to 3 hours of power and at 175 volts or higher the voltage WILL damage the controller so if the protection mode dos not kick in right away well I think you get my point.

Outback is working on a fix and will be shipping a BETA test model in two to three weeks, I have asked to be a tester and if they do ship me a fix to test for them I'll let them and this board know what happens.

I also thing you will find the same problem on most if not all other controllers too, I have checked and they all have allmost the same spec's.

Um - sounds like you're talking about problems that arise in a DC charging system? This wouldn't apply to a grid-connected inverter, right?

I'm just getting educated in solar PV but the Sanyo panels look like the sweet spot to me. They put out over 14 watts per square foot, compared to 10-11 watts for every other brand of panel I'm aware of. Also, if you look at the California Energy Commission power ratings for panels, CEC rates the other brands at about 90% of nameplate watts, give or take 1%. Sanyo panels are rated at 94% of nameplate watts. In other words, they're labeled conservatively.

The only other comparable panel is the SunPower, but I don't like the fact that it only works with one brand of inverter.

The only concern on the Sanyo's is they are a new hybrid process that is a sandwich of Si and Asi.

Asi has a horrible track record, the panels degrade much faster in performace than Si, Only UniSolar is left hoding the bag on Asi, BP abandon the technology and with a handful of others

If your in a space crunch and MUST roll the dice then they are top billing n a watt/sf basis, I think if one is investing 25-50K in panels you should go with a proven technology and the Top grade panels are not to far behind the Sanyo.

For example, the Matrix 175 watt of the pw1650 series , they come in 155,165 and 175 all same panel size. Kyocera, Sharp, Shell, BP all have similar grade ranges for the same physical size panel