Hi
Thanks to the Solar Guppy for putting this site together. We own a small farm near Plant City FL, and just found out about a USDA program that funds 25% of renewable energy systems. We would like to do a solar energy system, but to get this grant we have to get the paper work in by the end of this month (June 05). We have talked to one solar contractor, who installed our DHW system, but are still not sure what's possible. We want to design a system that will off-set our current energy use, but are restricted by how much money we have available. Our vision is to do an intertie with TECO (Tampa Electric). The farm also uses a 120V DC (20 golf cart batteries) electric conversion truck. We wanted to charge the truck directly thru a charge controller from the solar panels, and use the truck for back-up power if the grid is down. We would greatly appreciate any advice anyone could offer--or if a solar contractor would be interested, let us know.

Thanks
Jon Butts
813-754-7374

I beleive TECO is dual meter , not net metering

This means they buy at wholesale whichs is like 2-3 cents kwh

I don't know of any contractors local , you should contact FSEC , they might have some suggestions

25% is nice , what is you budget ?

Hi

We all ready have contacted the FSEC, and they're suppose to send some information on past work shops on the grants. We are thinking about 25K of our money. I'll check with TECO.

Thanks Jon

The Going rate for solar panels, bought direct is about 4.00-4.50 a watt these days and that IF you can get them at all

For planning purposes you should figure about 10 dollar watt installed on a roof mount installation , more for ground mount as they require more frame work for the panel mountings and secure hurricane rated footings

For Grid intertie, you'll have to pull permits and more than likely you will be the first residential solar intertie installation in Hillsboro County (I was the first in Polk County) and they will want reams of paper-work and a stamped set of plans from a PE (Structural engineer) for the panel mounting, this is necessary for the 125mph wind loading

For your Truck, there are no charge controllers that take PV and regulate to a nominal 120V dc battery bank The widest range controllers presently have a maximum input of about 140V (which is about 5 12 volt solar panels in series) and output 12-48V nominal

Keep in mind a 12 Volt solar panel, here in Florida will range from about 24 volts no load in the winter to about 13 volt in the summer heat at its maximum power point. This range is why you really can’t put more than 5 is series. Your battery bank also has a range, from about 150V for and Equalize charge to 120 Volts under load, it’s a bit confusing as everyone calls batteries and solar panels 12 volts, but their not!

This might sound over whelming, it’s a doable project, you’re just going to have to do work for your 30% grant money and here in Florida, there are only a handful of PV people around.

I have only read about two , one in home power (two months ago) that did an island installations and another that posts regularly to the re-wrenches list , which Michael Welch of Home Power runs , he would be your best lead in find a true PV installer here in Florida.

I would estimate , in broad terms your looking at a 2500 watt installation , for your 25K AND the 30% grant money after all is said and done if your going to pay someone to do the work , permit correct installation. For this you can sell to TECO your kWhr’s at wholesale (unless they have changed there policies) for 3-4 a kWh … do the Math and you will see why Florida is basically a solar wasteland

My system, I built myself, bargain hunted for panels, did everything except the PE sign off and Lakeland Electric does true net metering, my payback for my 7.5kW system is about 20 years , which I have about 20K into

Hope this tid bits help

guppy,
could they size the system so it only slows the meter?

I feed my AC into a breaker in my electric panel in the house.
My main meter spins backwards but only occasionally.

If they use onsite ALL the electrons they produce then TECO would be unaware of them. since the electrons would never hit the meter going out.
(is this HBX mode?)

The electric van MIGHT be able to have 2 charge points for its battery bank at 1/2 each of the bank, both charging at same time with some fancy dancing with 2 CC's

Thus, they get the 25% incentive/grant,

use the 10% fed tax credit for biz
http://www.dsireusa.org/library/include ... ntpageid=1

i am not sure if the MACRS would apply

i think idea at moment is to keep all PV power produced "at home" but grid tie to get the incentive till TECO "see's the light"

(PS, hope the hurricane misses you Henry)
robert in Rockville, Maryland where i am getting ready to be shaded my my neighbor and his 44ft high McMansion

Hi Robert,

The issue with gridtie and netmetering is most meters spin forward regardless of the flow of power , this is a theif deterent as long ago so folks figured out the could just install there meters upside down for a few days to keep the bills lower

So if your net connected and make ANY excess power the meter will show the power you "sell" and power you bougt This is why the slient sell mode would be needed but no inverter makers have this product

The first storm of the season will be a rain maker ... living in florida its just another day , thanks for your concerns

wowsers!!! I must have a VERY old meter on my house.

PEPCO (Potomac Elec. Power Co.) is my supplier.
my meter spins backwards, i kid you not, at times.

If i turn everything off it will go and the numbers on the dials go down.
I thought everybody had one like this one.

so some meters spin !!!faster!!! if you run PV into them.
no wonder people act as if i am nuts most of time.

this is gotta investigate but i am pretty sure of my meter.
I was replaced 10-15 yrs ago.
I am gonna be torqued if I gave 4,600 KWh to PEPco and PAID for the priviledge to boot.

Maryland has a true netmeter law so that should be true.

If i do a reset at high noon i can see the little Aluminum wheel speed up then slow down as PV comes on line and it starts cranking out abt 1.054KW (max)

I learn about this the hardway

The old pure mechanical meters "might" work , thats what I have now and I'm legit with Lakeland Electric

Most mechanical meters have a ratch , even though the disk spins backwards , the totals do not , so you get no credit for generation

Newer mechanical meters may have a radio transmitter (this is to make meter reading easier) , it has its own counter and will report either direction as power bought. This happened to me on my last house , they changed the meter and very quickly they had the dials showing correct net-meter but the radio (with opto counter) read much higher so there was a ever growing difference between the two totals

Almost all digital meters reports power "bought" regardless of direction and they flag that reverse power flow detected to aide in thief detection. I had one of these also on my old house (we went thru 4 meters to get net-metering correct)

To have a new digital meter for net-metering , the meter must be specifically ordered for this function by the utility , Lakleland Electric gave up and went back to the original 20 year old mechanical meter , there not happy , but I'm the only customer with gridtie solar so its easier for them this way vs. trying to order a special electronic version for just me ... it's 2-300 for them for a proper electronic version to do true net-metering

Hope this helps

Good imformation thanks!
I did talk to someone at TECO (Tampa Electric Co) and he informed me that they do net metering. I'm talking to their renewable energy expert this monday, so I should know more. I hope to take a trip to the FSEC this week. A staff menber has offered to help in designing the system, and doing the paper work. I'll keep you informed.

Jon

I have a Landis&Gyr mechanical MSII (discontinued) model as my utility company meter.
I have seen the stator wheel slow down and stop and reverse but i can not swear I saw the dial numbers go down.

I can't check this until July4th when rest of family leaves for a week and i switch the house off except for the inverter
I have been hunting and so far can not find out if it counts down as well as up

I have a GE type I-70-s mechanical meter 120v from Hialeah elec in Miami that i run the electrons thru before they go into my panel and out to the world from my panels and inverter

It will reverse and count down as it got hooked up backwards initially and later a diode popped on the inverter which was un noticed for a month and the dials counted down.